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么攀。",[514,677,678,680],{},[502,679,508],{},"：到我这个年纪攀岩非常非常好。老人其实最怕摔跤。攀岩就是要形成一种摔跤，摔跤不就是手撑吗？这种就是自我保护的动作。",[514,682,683,685],{},[502,684,504],{},"：攀岩确实挺好的，滑雪也很好。刚才我们还聊喜欢骑马，我就觉得骑马我就没有那么大兴趣，就像我拉你打高尔夫，你估计也很难感兴趣。",[514,687,688,690],{},[502,689,508],{},"：兴趣是第一我非常同意，运动还是很重要的。",[514,692,693,695],{},[502,694,504],{},"：相当重要，运动完了自己也觉得舒服。",[514,697,698],{},"田朴珺：最好的运动频率，专家说一周大概3到5次左右。",[514,700,701,703],{},[502,702,508],{},"：实际上在于自己。我是早上基本5点半起床，6点半就是划赛艇。划1个半到2个小时。之后就不影响吃早餐、上班，下午有空再在岩馆里跑两圈。",[514,705,706,708],{},[502,707,504],{},"：你还上班吗？",[514,710,711,713],{},[502,712,508],{},"：我上班，我是2020年决定再创业。",[514,715,716,718],{},[502,717,504],{},"：那说明你喜欢这个，这个没有别的原因，我看这些到了一定年龄以后还要去忙，一定是他喜欢的事情。",[514,720,721],{},"02",[652,723,725],{"id":724},"投资逻辑","**　　投资逻辑：**",[652,727,729],{"id":728},"懂生意才是核心","**　　懂生意才是核心**",[514,731,732,734,735,738,739,742],{},[502,733,508],{},"：永平，我觉得很难得，咱们虽然认识这么长时间了，这样的认真聊天很难得。我印象中大家一提你都说你买",[502,736,737],{},"网易","，实际上大家不知道你买",[502,740,741],{},"万科","。你还记得吗？就是当年到深圳，你和我面谈完，那时候股票价格非常低。",[514,744,745,747,748,750,751,753,754,756],{},[502,746,504],{},"：那个时候，很多人说",[502,749,741],{},"的一些问题，我说至少你们看到的东西应该大概率不是真的。因为我觉得，",[502,752,508],{},"给我的印象不是一个跑到小房间里跟财务商量怎么做假账的那种人，做错是有可能，但是作假那是两回事儿。所以看你的财务数据，在当时来讲，我觉得这个价钱显然是便宜了。当时我确实买了，后来涨很多就卖了，刚好那个时候碰到",[502,755,741],{},"股价特别便宜的时候。",[514,758,759],{},"田朴珺：那是哪一年啊？我都不知道。",[514,761,762,764,765,592],{},[502,763,504],{},"：〇四、〇五年左右，大概是那个时候吧。二十年了，那还是蛮有意思的一件事。之前我没怎么买过A股，就那时候我开始做投资，买过星巴克。后来慢慢地，买A股就买了",[502,766,591],{},[514,768,769,770,772],{},"田朴珺：现在您还看好",[502,771,591],{},"吗？",[514,774,775,777,778,780,781,783,784,786],{},[502,776,504],{},"：有什么理由不看好呢？当然，你要不喝酒很难理解这个问题，但是我有太多朋友喜欢喝",[502,779,591],{},"了，所以我能够懂它这个生意。我觉得你有闲钱，买",[502,782,591],{},"肯定是比放银行好，但是有没有东西可以涨得比",[502,785,591],{},"更多？肯定有。",[514,788,789,790,792,793,592],{},"田朴珺：像",[502,791,538],{},"当时买",[502,794,795],{},"可口可乐",[514,797,798,800,801,804,805,592,807,809,810,812],{},[502,799,504],{},"：",[502,802,803],{},"喜诗糖果","，特别像",[502,806,803],{},[502,808,795],{},"的判断可能难度会更高一点，",[502,811,803],{},"是很像的，所以他就把整个公司都买下来了。我没那么多钱，我买不下整个公司，我买一点点总可以。",[514,814,815,816,819,820,823,824,826,827,829],{},"很多人说，",[524,817,43],{"href":818},"\u002Fjiazhitouzi","很难。但",[524,821,96],{"href":822},"\u002Ftouji","更难！很多人不理解这个问题。",[524,825,96],{"href":822},"百分之八九十的散户都是亏钱的，牛市、熊市都亏。然后说我很难，我买",[502,828,591],{},"一直拿着，拿了十几年，我难在哪儿了？",[514,831,832],{},"田朴珺：您中间不会打开账户去看吗？",[514,834,835,837,838,840],{},[502,836,504],{},"：看不等于要卖，美股的账户我经常看。如果真的懂了这个企业，你不会受市场的影响。越到后头就越不容易受影响，看着账户准备随时赶紧逃的这种，就是在",[524,839,96],{"href":822},"。这样也有好处，多巴胺上升会觉得很快乐，当然赢的时候是开心的，输的时候也没那么快乐，投资不是这样。但是涨的时候也可以快乐，也有多巴胺，但它们不是同一个东西。所以投资最主要的是懂对方的生意，不然就真的很难。",[514,842,843],{},"03",[652,845,847,848,850],{"id":846},"企业文化与传承","**　　",[524,849,104],{"href":526},"与传承：**",[652,852,847,854,599,856,858],{"id":853},"本分理性长远",[524,855,5],{"href":530},[524,857,170],{"href":625},"、长远**",[514,860,861,863,864,867],{},[502,862,508],{},"：没想到，做企业已经做到这个年纪了。你从“",[502,865,866],{},"小霸王","”一直做到现在，大家提的是你创业阶段。实际上你带出的人，还有他们没有提到的很多人都是从你这公司出去的，这种逻辑体系是怎么形成的，有几个特点？",[514,869,870,872,873,875,876,878,879,882,883,885,886,885,889,892,893,896],{},[502,871,504],{},"：我们把它叫",[524,874,104],{"href":526},"。这个文化，大家都是",[524,877,170],{"href":625},"、想长远。所以需要用户导向、",[524,880,39],{"href":881},"\u002Fxiaofeizhedaoxiang","，做事情",[524,884,5],{"href":530},"，",[524,887,15],{"href":888},"\u002Fzuoduideshiqing",[524,890,19],{"href":891},"\u002Fbashiqingzuodui","。这些东西看起来没有什么了不起，但是要做三十年，就厉害了，",[502,894,895],{},"步步高","已经三十年了。",[514,898,899,900,902],{},"坚持",[524,901,15],{"href":888},"，发现错了赶紧改，几十年一直这样持续下来，它确实有很大威力。但是你说某一件事、某一天、某个阶段，它是不是每件事都一定会让你获得最大的利益，其实没有人知道。",[514,904,905],{},"我二十多年前就退休了，所以我觉得你一定是很喜欢你做的事。我是个懒人，我想打高尔夫，让我一直管企业，我可受不了，我是连上班都不爱上的人。",[514,907,908,910],{},[502,909,508],{},"：你这是管理风格，你的管理方法非常有特点。",[514,912,913,915],{},[502,914,504],{},"：我早就不管了，二十几年了，没有管过任何东西。",[514,917,918,919,921,922,924,925,927,928,599,930,932,933,935],{},"田朴珺：这个就是我最好奇的点。您说二十几年前其实就把企业放手了，但是像您说的，",[524,920,104],{"href":526},"特别重要，怎么能放手不管之后，",[524,923,104],{"href":526},"依然还能保持？包括像您带出来的一些从",[502,926,895],{},"出来的人，现在把自己的企业做得也很好，像",[502,929,602],{},[502,931,598],{},"这些企业。",[524,934,104],{"href":526},"是怎么传承的？",[514,937,938,940,941,943],{},[502,939,504],{},"：招人的时候要招对",[524,942,104],{"href":526},"适合的人，不一定是在招人的那一个时刻、那一刹那，就把人都鉴别出来。因为经过三五年的工作，其实知道哪些人适合，哪些人不适合，而且不适合的人他自己也会走。",[514,945,946,947,950],{},"很多人想赚快钱，很多人都想着怎么蒙一票，我们就习惯了老老实实做产品，做了几十年攒了好多粉丝。这么多年，我们做手机确实很厉害，包括做手表，",[502,948,949],{},"小天才","手表都很厉害。",[514,952,953,954,592,956,958,959,961,962,592,964,966],{},"我们的文化就叫",[524,955,5],{"href":530},[524,957,5],{"href":530},"就是做你该做的事情，就是",[524,960,170],{"href":625},"、想长远。任何事情大部分人都会讨论有没有钱赚，我们会经常讨论，这是不是一件对的事情。如果是错的事情，应该马上停止，对的事情我们要",[524,963,19],{"href":891},[524,965,19],{"href":891},"的过程当中，犯错误是避免不了的，一定会犯错，所以有学习曲线，继续往前走就好了。",[514,968,969,970,972],{},"但是对错很重要，国内会很认真地去想是非问题的企业，比例上是不高的，因为大家都要拼了命地赶紧去多挣钱，利润导向比较厉害。我们比较用户导向，我这个用户是",[524,971,39],{"href":881},"，不是客户导向。",[514,974,975,976,978],{},"客户导向会有点复杂，但是",[524,977,39],{"href":881},"就很简单，你的最终用户到底要的是什么，我们能够提供什么，文化其实贯穿的就是这些。",[514,980,981],{},"我们三十年司庆的时候，公司的庆祝活动标题叫“更健康、更长久”，这个话是我当年提出来的，因为那个时候很多人在讲“我们要做五百强”，“我们要五百大”，就是讲营业额，我说这个东西不重要。我们公司从来没有定过“要做到多少营业额”、“要赚多少钱”的目标，我们就讲“更健康、更长久”，凡是不健康不长久的事情，都应该停下来。",[514,983,984],{},"田朴珺：就是持之以恒，不被外界的各种诱惑去动摇。",[514,986,987,989],{},[502,988,504],{},"：至少你这么想，你被动摇的概率就会低。",[514,991,992],{},"04",[652,994,996],{"id":995},"低调与放权","**　　低调与放权：**",[652,998,1000],{"id":999},"从合唱领唱到听众人唱","**　　从合唱领唱到听众人唱**",[514,1002,1003],{},"田朴珺：我知道您现在非常少出来。您是从2000年之后刻意想低调，想淡出吗？",[514,1005,1006,1008],{},[502,1007,504],{},"：首先强调，我从来没有低调过，也没有高调过，我觉得我很正常，我现在不是CEO了，跑出来干吗？",[514,1010,1011],{},"以前我是CEO经常要见媒体，要代表公司宣传。现在知道公司所有的事情，都是跟大家一样，从网上知道。唯一不一样的地方就是，我可以问他们真的吗？当然我会知道一些具体的东西，比方说参加董事会知道具体的营业额、销量之类的。",[514,1013,1014],{},"在公司里，我不希望别人觉得这个公司是因为我。就像领合唱一样，你开了个头，后面都是大家自己在唱。怎么能唱得这么好？我是开心的。公司对我来讲像我的孩子，又像我的兄弟朋友。感情是这个样的，我觉得挺开心，这个也是很有成就感的事情。",[514,1016,1017,1019],{},[502,1018,508],{},"：咱们很多想法我觉得是一致的，创业打拼肯定离不开你，但最后的成功是企业离开你之后还能延续下去。",[514,1021,1022],{},"但显然和你相比，我现在应该是非常不成功。刚才你说的，你不在，企业也做得很好，甚至可能是从决定开始到结束，你都不知道。",[514,1024,1025,1026,1028,1029,1031,1032,885,1034,1031,1036,592],{},"实际上很多事情，我放权也放到像你这个水平。我从2017年就彻底从",[502,1027,741],{},"退休了，我是2011年去哈佛之后就待在国外。但是到现在还是，",[502,1030,508],{},"就是",[502,1033,741],{},[502,1035,741],{},[502,1037,508],{},[514,1039,1040,1042,1043,1045],{},[502,1041,504],{},"：我对授权是有蛮深体会的。我是那么想，你要从指示到指导、协商、授权、放权，然后最后还有一句话叫“Never out of control（不要失控）”，什么能够让企业不失控，其实就是文化。从招人开始，就要招到能够匹配的人选，主要看合适性和合格性。合适性指的就是",[524,1044,104],{"href":526},"，合格性指的就是能力。",[514,1047,1048,1050,1051,1053,1054,1056],{},[502,1049,895],{},"几十年的员工比比皆是，大家彼此了解、喜欢这个文化，所以大家待得下来，甚至很多人还在",[502,1052,866],{},"。就像",[502,1055,508],{},"刚才讲的，干得久需要足够的精力，足够的激情，我觉得后期我就没有太大的激情了。",[514,1058,1059],{},"但是看我们的小伙子们还很有激情，让他们来吧，他们做得挺好。",[514,1061,1062],{},"田朴珺：像您说的，他们可能一年才汇报一两次，但还有动力把企业做好，是因为把股份都分给他们了，所以是他们自己的事了吗？",[514,1064,1065,1067],{},[502,1066,504],{},"：也不完全是因为股份，我觉得他们喜欢自己做的事情。而且我了解他们，我其实早就知道他们会很厉害，只不过他们没有那么有名而已，我有什么好不放心的，还可以自己打球。",[514,1069,1070],{},"田朴珺：怎么能做好能人的大哥？他们能力又那么强。",[514,1072,1073,1075,1076,1078],{},[502,1074,504],{},"：你并不需要做什么，他们在做他们自己的事情。比如说我投了",[502,1077,588],{},"，就非要做蒂姆·库克的大哥吗？也不需要。这个公司虽然是我开的头，但文化是大家一起建立的，公司也是一起建立起来的。大家确实做得好，有很多东西我想象不到。他们现在做的事情比我当CEO的时候厉害多了，那么大的销量，那么多的员工。养得起员工，必须要有合适的产品。长远来讲，你靠一两句话蒙人，企业哪能超过30年呢？但很有意思的是，我们很享受这个事情，很开心。",[514,1080,1081],{},"田朴珺：我觉得有天分的成分在里面。",[514,1083,1084,1086],{},[502,1085,504],{},"：就像费德勒讲那句话，要非常地努力，最后才能让你看着毫不费力。我是不喜欢把我们做得好的事情，用一句有天赋概括掉。我花了那么多时间，那么努力地做这件事情，怎么就成天赋了？像很多人说“阿段你有语言天赋，你会说广东话”，我说“你知道吗？我来广东的时候，买了盒磁带天天练”。",[514,1088,1089,1091],{},[502,1090,508],{},"：你也很刻苦，我也很刻苦，但是效果不一样。",[514,1093,1094,1096],{},[502,1095,504],{},"：不是的。广东话我怎么学的？我来了就觉得跟打仗一样，发现广东话我完全听不懂，所以我说不行得去学。到书店找到了一本《广东话300句》。我想我的英文就是《英语900句》学的，也就学了一百来句就会了。广东话300句我也没学完，但是一个字一个字学的，而且总结了很多经验。",[514,1098,1099,1101],{},[502,1100,508],{},"：我有这种经历，我的英文和广东话差不多，到现在都是讲得不好。但有时候跟你说话很容易说英文，因为太专注了。",[514,1103,1104,1106,1107,1109,1110,1112],{},[502,1105,504],{},"：我英文其实没有那么好。以后就方便了，",[502,1108,588],{},"耳机可以直接翻译。我第一次用",[502,1111,588],{},"耳机，1分多钟不到2分钟就搞定了。",[514,1114,1115,1116,1119],{},"田朴珺：我觉得这就是",[502,1117,1118],{},"乔布斯","伟大的地方。",[514,1121,1122,1124,1125,1127,1128,1131,1132,885,1134,1136],{},[502,1123,504],{},"：是的。",[502,1126,1118],{},"算是一个",[524,1129,137],{"href":1130},"\u002Fzaozhongren","，他建立这样的一个",[524,1133,104],{"href":526},[502,1135,588],{},"的用户导向是非常强的。虽然大企业也会有犯错误的时候，但是总体来讲，我觉得这家公司挺好的。",[514,1138,1139,1140,1142],{},"田朴珺：我知道你也算",[502,1141,588],{},"的股东。",[514,1144,1145,1147,1148,592],{},[502,1146,504],{},"：我们有投资在",[502,1149,588],{},[514,1151,1152,1153,772],{},"田朴珺：你未来还持续看好",[502,1154,588],{},[514,1156,1157,1159],{},[502,1158,504],{},"：我觉得至少还没有看不好。找到一个好公司不容易，不能因为赚了点钱、股票涨了点，就赶紧卖了，来回折腾也折腾不过来，也没有时间打球了，打球对我来讲比投资更重要。对你来讲攀岩可能比把生意做多大更重要，逻辑差不多。",[514,1161,1162,1164,1165,1167],{},[502,1163,508],{},"：很多人讲运动、健康生活当然好。我发现中国企业家到50、60岁了才开始强调身体健康的重要性。我觉得像你一直保持运动是把运动当成爱好，实际上你表现得举重若轻，在各方面都是这样。而且是大家也知道，你突然离开去美国，和个人的家庭生活选择有关，那怎么来保持工作、运动、生活等等这样的一个平衡？你从",[502,1166,866],{},"出来之后，实际上那几个逻辑特别适合。不知道这个平衡你是怎么把握的。",[514,1169,1170,1172,1173,1175],{},[502,1171,504],{},"：我叫",[524,1174,5],{"href":530},"，该干嘛干嘛。 其实也没有那么喜欢运动。我喜欢打高尔夫，而不是因为我喜欢运动。当然做企业有责任，该做的事情当工作去做。其实平衡就是时间管理。我觉得喜欢可能最重要，不喜欢的东西你就很难花力气去做。当然有时候意识到不喜欢的事的重要性，比方我发现柔韧性有问题，就要做普拉提，平时一定要拉伸。",[514,1177,1178],{},"05",[652,1180,1182],{"id":1181},"营销心法","**　　营销心法：**",[652,1184,1186],{"id":1185},"不说谎高效沟通","**　　不说谎，高效沟通**",[514,1188,1189],{},"田朴珺：冯仑有跟我讲，因为他比较了解您嘛，我说冯哥你跟我讲一讲，阿段到底是个什么样的人。他讲了一句话。他说老王是个很简单的人，阿段是个更简单的人。后来我看书里讲到一点是对人的诚信。从最早做生意开始，有人说你是中国的“营销大王”，最早做营销大家都知道你请成龙做广告。",[514,1191,1192,1194],{},[502,1193,508],{},"：那个实际上是非常短的标段。",[514,1196,1197,1199],{},[502,1198,504],{},"：它是这样，就是说央视从来没有过所谓的标王。",[514,1201,1202,1204],{},[502,1203,508],{},"：天气预报，那个很经典，你挖掘那个时段的潜力嘛。",[514,1206,1207,1209],{},[502,1208,504],{},"：我们是需要去抢位置的。我们做营销其实特别简单，就是把要告诉用户的东西，用最高效率告诉他。什么东西告诉用户？我们有很强的原则，第一个就是不可以有任何谎话。",[514,1211,1212],{},"很多广告是假的，但是你可以找到效率更高的办法，请成龙的目的就是吸引别人来看广告。那个时候大牌明星做广告的少，其实请成龙帮我们省了很多钱。因为广告在央视播一次花的钱是固定的，请成龙出现一次吸引的关注度可能是其他人的10倍。比方说我们请成龙可能花几百万人民币，但是我们的广告投入可能花几千万，请他的费用在我们的广告投入里只占十分之一，甚至少于十分之一。如果他能够提高一倍的效率，是不是就大赚了？这是可简单的一个算术题了。",[514,1214,1215,1216,1218,1219,1221,1222,1224],{},"同时你的每一句广告词、每一个字是真的花了功夫的。",[502,1217,866],{},"学习机的广告有一句“你拍四我拍四，包你三天会打字”，我们真的从生产线挑了一批从来没有碰过打字机的人，8个小时，没有人达不到打字员的基本水平。包你三天会打字是为了上口，实际上8个小时就够。包括我们后来请成龙做广告的广告语，“想当年我用拳头打天下，如今这电脑时代，我儿子要用",[502,1220,866],{},"打天下”，然后是“同样天下父母心，望子成龙",[502,1223,866],{},"”。",[514,1226,1227],{},"最早的广告词是“可怜天下父母心”，我说这个不行，然后大家就想了很久，一个字一个字琢磨，经常坐在一起吃饭也琢磨。这里面都是功夫，这个功夫其实就是你到底想表达什么，“可怜”好像就没那么舒服。这里面没有什么诀窍，全是功夫。",[514,1229,1230,1232],{},[502,1231,508],{},"：最大诀窍就是功夫。",[514,1234,1235],{},"06",[652,1237,1239],{"id":1238},"如何面对","　**　如何面对：**",[652,1241,1243],{"id":1242},"内卷与躺平","**　　内卷与躺平**",[514,1245,1246],{},"田朴珺：现在年轻人有两个说法，一个就是内卷。我不知道您知道这个词吗？",[514,1248,1249,1251],{},[502,1250,504],{},"：比我们还卷吗？但是我们高考的时候录取率才不到1%。",[514,1253,1254],{},"田朴珺：那真的是卷不过你，卷不过七七、七八届的高考生。还有一种说法是躺平。很多人说，反正也没什么希望了，也不可能暴富或者怎么样。你会怎么给年轻人什么建议，在内卷和躺平之间。",[514,1256,1257,1259],{},[502,1258,504],{},"：我觉得大家要找到自己喜欢的事情。如果你用内卷和躺平这种东西来讲的话，可能永远都找不到答案。做不好就抱怨已经失去机会、没有资源了。",[514,1261,1262],{},"我们也没有资源。在哪个年代，普通人成为一个很有成就的人都是很少的。你才20多岁，就说没房子没车。我到28岁都还没坐过车，才第一次坐飞机，开车都30岁了，我们那时候条件艰苦。",[514,1264,1265],{},"上大学才第一次打电话，那个时候不知道怎么打。记得到浙大的时候，终于找到一个电话，发现上面没有任何跟数字有关的东西。站旁边等了半个小时，终于有人拿起电话说：总机接外线。才知道原来电话这么用。",[514,1267,1268],{},"田朴珺：那上面没有按键是不是。",[514,1270,1271,1273],{},[502,1272,504],{},"：没有嘛，因为它是内线电话。大学毕业到北京的时候，搞辆自行车骑车上班，一上车发现都对着我骑过来。没在大城市骑过自行车，就马上学习，原来他们是这个样子，我觉得有道理，每个人都走一边。我在农村出来的人，从来没有体会过这件事情，所以人是一点点学过来的，不要去抱怨。我觉得好多人喜欢抱怨，环境不好，错都是别人的，赚到都是自己的，这个至少对大家没有什么帮助。",[514,1275,1276],{},"努力去找自己喜欢的事情，实在不行就努力喜欢自己正在做的事儿，你也能找到乐趣。很多人说我没有找到我自己喜欢的事，我现在没办法才躺平，其实是因为不够努力，其实没有什么好抱怨的，不是因为我们到了今天说这句话，当然也可能我就是因为运气好，或者说我就是因为有天赋，谁知道呢。",[514,1278,1279],{},"田朴珺：我觉得运气肯定是很重要的一个因素，任何人的成功，其实都不能脱离运气的成分，但是运气来的时候，你得足够地努力才能接得住。",[514,1281,1282,1284],{},[502,1283,504],{},"：有人问过我这个问题，如果你现在毕业会做什么？我说以我现在的理解，不携带任何资源的情况下，会去找一家我喜欢的公司、喜欢的老板，然后努力地做，发挥我的能力，希望被重用。",[514,1286,1287],{},"其实没有人天生什么都会，人需要有很多时间去成长、去学习。",[514,1289,1290,1291,1293],{},"我的认知可能很有限，我就想着要做一个什么样的产品，要去一个什么样的企业。当年研究生毕业的时候，本来是要留在北京的，但找好的单位我就是不想去，觉得广东这个地方可能更有机会。但是万一到时候找不到饭吃怎么办？我有一绝招可以教人高考。我从那么困难的情况高考成功了。",[524,1292,53],{"href":581},"都想好了，招上来教你高考，考不上完全退钱。我的本事还能都考不上吗，只要有人考上，我就能活下来。",[514,1295,1296,1297,1299],{},"田朴珺：要是当时没去",[502,1298,866],{},"就成了新东方是吧？",[514,1301,1302,1304],{},[502,1303,504],{},"：我原话就是这样，可能就没有俞敏洪什么事了。当然这是玩笑了。如果想通了，你知道自己在干嘛，其实自信就会高很多。",[514,1306,1307,1309],{},[502,1308,508],{},"：机会是给每个人的。",[514,1311,1312,1314],{},[502,1313,504],{},"：我觉得现在的机会可能比我们那个时候要多。",[514,1316,1317],{},"07",[652,1319,1321],{"id":1320},"教育观","**　　教育观：**",[652,1323,1325],{"id":1324},"安全感与边界感","**　　安全感与边界感**",[514,1327,1328],{},"田朴珺：有很多说法，说中国哪一代人是最幸福的？就60尾70头的那一代，他们几乎赶上了整个改革开放。",[514,1330,1331,1333],{},[502,1332,504],{},"：我觉得都是没想明白。",[514,1335,1336],{},"田朴珺：所以你觉得现在的年轻人仍然有大把的机会。",[514,1338,1339,1341],{},[502,1340,504],{},"：当然，你看现在多少年轻的富豪，对不对？年纪轻轻，二十几岁、三十几岁，就几个亿美金身家了，问题是为什么他不是你呢？",[514,1343,1344],{},"田朴珺：这是很多人都要问的，为什么不是他。",[514,1346,1347,1349],{},[502,1348,504],{},"：要问他自己呀，他怎么能问别人。凭什么是你不是我？他爸也没有什么，对不对。不要说三十几岁，拉布布的老板其实年纪也不大。我开始也觉得拉布布是很神奇的一个东西，再仔细看人家十几年，真是一点一滴做出来的。虽然我看不懂这家公司，我不会去买他们股票，不会做他们投资，但是他能够把情绪价值的产品做成这个样子，不是随便就能做成的。我看过王宁他的讲话，真的是花了功夫的，所以不要一句话把人家运气说成狗屎运，对不对？",[514,1351,1352],{},"我觉得所有的成功，绝大多数都是因为努力，努力后面有没有天赋？我不知道。",[514,1354,1355],{},"很多人把自己不刻苦没有成就，归罪于社会没有给他条件，没有给他机会。我觉得那是对社会的不公平。",[514,1357,1358],{},"社会其实给每个人的条件和机会都是一样的，我们都是这么过来的嘛。我父母就是普通的教师，还不是说很好的那种，我们那时候都是穷人，除了个别人稍微好一点以外，没有谁条件特别好的，都是靠自己。",[514,1360,1361],{},"田朴珺：有的时候是时代造就了你，有的时候你也可以创造自己的时代。",[514,1363,1364,1366],{},[502,1365,504],{},"：时代造就了某个人，这个说法是一定不对的。因为那个时代那么多人呢，怎么就造就了你呢？这个逻辑就把别人的成功归罪于社会对他不公，这样他们真的能感觉好一点吗？确实我不太理解。又说是吃了改革开放的红利，那你怎么就不吃呢？",[514,1368,1369],{},"凭什么我就吃到了，我又没有什么特别的，因为我的情况是特别简单的，真的就是一个普通人，并没有一个显赫的家世，也没有人教过我，甚至连考工科都不是家里教的，因为我父母虽然是老师，但是他们都是文科的，家里头我们高考的时候连本书都没有，到处借高考自学考试的书，有17本。借来一本，3天必须得看完，题都得做完。真的是不容易的，但是你很享受，你很开心。",[514,1371,1372],{},"比方说原生家庭对大家的影响。我有时候会想这个事，我就觉得，看来我真的是有运气。我父母对我，他们并没有干什么事情，只是没有逼我干什么，所以我是一个很有安全感的人。",[514,1374,1375],{},"我总是觉得带小孩最重要的是要帮他建立安全感。不要去逼他干不喜欢的事情，但是你引导他是一件很费劲的事情，打一顿骂一顿很容易，所以我说你不能打孩子，不能骂孩子，不能吼孩子。那该怎么办？就要琢磨了。",[514,1377,1378],{},"我儿子、女儿当球童时候，小孩打坏了球是要发脾气的，会哭、会闹，我就看到好多家长这个时候跟小孩就顶上了。至少我现在不会，开始的时候我也是想办法叫我儿子不能哭，后来发现你跟他说什么都没有用。",[514,1380,1381],{},"他开始打比赛的时候6岁，他在那一个时刻是有情绪要去发泄的。比方说爸爸我不爱你了，他在那一刹那很生气，他骂你不表示他真的不爱你，如果跟他较上劲了，那就是不对。",[514,1383,1384],{},"因为小孩有时候会讲这句话，爸爸我恨你，妈妈我恨你。你如果真的爱孩子，你就应该有一个所谓无条件的爱。他伤心的时候，你要容纳他、容忍他，但同时要教给他。比方说他扔杆子，我就往前走了，我说你扔杆子是可以的，但是要自己捡回来，不然下个洞你就没球杆打了。他一想也对，自己又去捡回来了。",[514,1386,1387],{},"有些事情要制止，比方说他生气了以后会砸果岭，我说这个不能砸。砸了以后，我们就马上报告球会。小朋友砸了果岭，罚款500块，要从他的零花钱里头扣。他就可心疼了，以后就不砸了。你吼他，不会帮他任何忙，但是会让他觉得吼是一个解决办法，你看打孩子的这些大人都是小时候被打大的。但是不打孩子不等于你不能教他，不能够纠正他，你要想办法。",[514,1389,1390,1392],{},[502,1391,508],{},"：你刚才讲的话是非常对，有的时候打孩子是因为小时候自己本身调皮。",[514,1394,1395],{},"田朴珺：我小的时候因为特别皮，我妈就会揍我，几乎每个礼拜都会被揍一顿，但我觉得被揍有一个好处，就是抗压性特别强，当然可能您不同意我的观点。现在很多小孩很脆弱，但是我觉得因为我小时候是挨揍长大的，我会觉得说别人在说我两句的时候，我不太会当回事。",[514,1397,1398,1400],{},[502,1399,504],{},"：打孩子不会增加孩子的抗压力，但会增加他的不安全感。",[514,1402,1403],{},"田朴珺：小孩子是需要管教的。我女儿现在很小，才5岁，她也会有那种生气的时候，她会跟你讲我不爱你了，但其实是小孩子的气话。她不敢掐我，但是她有脾气的时候敢掐她爸，把她爸胳膊这儿都掐得有点要起皮了。",[514,1405,1406,1408],{},[502,1407,504],{},"：这个时候你要跟她讲一下。因为当她可以掐你的时候，她再着急在外面有可能会掐别人。所以这个要小心，我觉得是要有边界的，不能做的事情，很坚定地告诉她，你不可以做这件事情。不需要吼，这个不需要很大的声音，就是告诉她，这个不可以，她可能就会停下来。小孩其实一直都在听，一直都在学。",[514,1410,1411],{},"08",[652,1413,1415],{"id":1414},"回顾与反思","**　　回顾与反思：**",[652,1417,1419],{"id":1418},"运气努力与认知","**　　运气、努力与认知**",[514,1421,1422],{},"田朴珺：假如你再回头看，有没有什么事，现在想起来你会觉得你做不到。当时你做到了，但过后会觉得我当时怎么这么厉害，我怎么能做到。",[514,1424,1425,1427],{},[502,1426,504],{},"：我骑自行车摔到空中这个，我再来一次，我能不能做到，是不知道的。",[514,1429,1430],{},"其他的事我觉得都是很顺理成章做到，但是你有靠运气的时候。比方我们拍个广告时段，那个时候怎么就让我拍着了呢。",[514,1432,1433,1434,1436,1437,1439,1440,1442],{},"我买",[502,1435,737],{},"，买了以后六个月涨了20倍，我全仓买的，账上那些钱我就都买了",[502,1438,737],{},"了。你说投资真厉害，再来一次。我说我不会，所以我不能把这个作为我能力强。但是我决定买",[502,1441,737],{},"这件事情，是我厉害的地方。让它六个月涨20倍那个不是我的本事。",[514,1444,1445],{},"但是你说涨20倍厉害吗？大把股票涨好多倍，但是用了好多年。所以很多人把这个短时间赚到钱作为一个追求的东西，那个是错的。",[514,1447,1433,1448,1450,1451,1453],{},[502,1449,737],{},"就是因为我发现我能够理解他们的生意，因为我做游戏出身的，看他们做游戏的方法有点意思。他们一堆很喜欢游戏的人，我觉得他们能做好，所以我当时因为刚开始做投资，你也可以说就是运气好，上来几乎重仓的",[502,1452,737],{},"，因为我发现这家公司我能搞懂。",[514,1455,1456],{},"那个时候大家又说这些公司要退市什么的，我们公司一直退着呢，我们就没上过，那就没价值了吗？",[514,1458,1459],{},"这家公司是有价值的，我愿意买它我就买了，所以它完全取决于你是不是懂这个生意。我觉得它不是运气，但是我在同样的点重复同样的回报，这个我没有办法做到。我要是能够一直这么重复，早就世界首富了。",[514,1461,1462],{},"09",[652,1464,847,1466,1468],{"id":1465},"巴菲特午餐的启示",[502,1467,538],{},"午餐的启示：**",[652,1470,847,1472,531,1474,1476],{"id":1471},"商业模式与企业文化",[524,1473,53],{"href":581},[524,1475,104],{"href":526},"**",[514,1478,1479],{},"田朴珺：你有一个门徒，现在也很厉害，号称是你的门徒，就是黄峥。",[514,1481,1482,1484,1485,1488,1489,1492],{},[502,1483,504],{},"：他从来没说过，别人说的。我们就是朋友，因为他进",[502,1486,1487],{},"谷歌","之前，",[502,1490,1491],{},"丁磊","介绍他认识我的，我发现他确实是我当年聊天的同龄人里头，特别有悟性的一个人，能够跟得上我说的东西，能够理解。因为他也没有碰过企业，他是认为我当年跟他讲的话，对后来他经营企业有帮助。后来人家说我，他也自己说，我是他的导师。我觉得如果他说可以，我不会说这句话，我一直把他当朋友看，他是我很好的一个朋友。但是我们也不常见面，偶尔会发个短信，可能一两年有一次联系。",[514,1494,1495,1496,1498],{},"田朴珺：你当时带他去见了",[502,1497,538],{},"，当时好像是说只能带6个人。",[514,1500,1501,1503],{},[502,1502,504],{},"：七个人。我搞错了，我带了八个。",[514,1505,1506],{},"田朴珺：你觉得最大的收获是什么？",[514,1508,1509,1511,1512,1514,1515,1517,1518,1520],{},[502,1510,504],{},"：我最重要的收获就是我问他，你看公司最重要的什么，他说",[524,1513,53],{"href":581},"。那个给我印象很深，因为我们看公司就是什么都看。我说你第一个看什么，他说",[524,1516,53],{"href":581},"，如果",[524,1519,53],{"href":581},"不对，我就不往下看了。他有过滤器，他讲的叫做对的人和对的价格。到我这里，我连对的价格都不讲了。",[514,1522,1523,1524,1526,1527,1529],{},"因为价格是你的运气，但是",[524,1525,53],{"href":581},"的第一关一定要过，你还要看他",[524,1528,104],{"href":526},"是不是你喜欢的。",[514,1531,1532,1533,1535,1536,1538,1539,1541,1542,1544,1545,1547,1548,1550],{},"不好的",[524,1534,104],{"href":526},"，它可能会把好的",[524,1537,53],{"href":581},"毁掉。这就是我为什么最后喜欢",[502,1540,588],{},"，我就喜欢他们的",[524,1543,53],{"href":581},"和",[524,1546,104],{"href":526},"，我觉得",[502,1549,588],{},"确实是一个好公司。当然我们公司也很好，只不过不是上市公司而已。",[514,1552,1553],{},"10",[652,1555,1557],{"id":1556},"ai与未来","**　　AI与未来：**",[652,1559,1561],{"id":1560},"是工具还是威胁","**　　是工具还是威胁？**",[514,1563,1564],{},"田朴珺：现在AI人工智能发展得这么高速，有的人说它代表了未来的希望，也有人说它可能是未来的毁灭者，你会怎么看这个问题？",[514,1566,1567,1569],{},[502,1568,504],{},"：也许我们未来的希望就是被毁灭了，谁知道呢。但是AI确实厉害，它大幅度地提高效率。你看两年的时间它改变了好多东西。",[514,1571,1572],{},"是福是祸不知道，但是我也很想把这个东西琢磨得明白一点，至少它省很多事。现在啥都可以问AI，它可以在好多地方帮忙。当然你可以多查几个，因为AI有时候胡说八道，它会乱讲。再过一百年可能我们就不是讨论AI了，就是AI在讨论过去的事情。",[514,1574,1575],{},"田朴珺：我们就像熊猫一样被保护在某个基地，然后有AI参观我们，大概有这种可能性。今天聊得有点意犹未尽，对我来说很有收获。",[514,1577,1578],{},"11",[652,1580,847,1581,1476],{"id":11},[524,1582,11],{"href":534},[652,1584,1586,1587,1476],{"id":1585},"即长期主义","**　　即",[524,1588,174],{"href":612},[514,1590,1591,1593,1594,1596,1597,1599,1600,592],{},[502,1592,508],{},"：我也很有收获。你的",[524,1595,11],{"href":534},"是非常难得的，因为往往成功之后就没法",[524,1598,11],{"href":534},"了，但你还能一直保持原来的",[524,1601,11],{"href":534},[514,1603,1604,1606,1607,1609,1610,1612,1613,1615,1616,1618,1619,1621,1622,1624,1625,1627,1628,1630,1631,1633,1634,1636,1637,1639],{},[502,1605,504],{},"：马云讲，",[524,1608,11],{"href":534},"其实就是不",[524,1611,11],{"href":534},"，因为平常人很难有",[524,1614,11],{"href":534},"。我们公司讲的",[524,1617,11],{"href":534},"，其实就是",[524,1620,170],{"href":625},"、想长远。",[524,1623,170],{"href":625},"也不容易，但是",[524,1626,170],{"href":625},"和想长远其实是一回事，因为你想长远就必须得",[524,1629,170],{"href":625},"。你要保持",[524,1632,170],{"href":625},"，必须得",[524,1635,11],{"href":534},"。所以你要放弃外界的干扰，其实它是一个逻辑的东西。讲来讲去就是一件事，你是个",[524,1638,174],{"href":612},"者，长期了以后，好多事情就都解决了。",[514,1641,1642],{},"（全）",{"title":1644,"searchDepth":13,"depth":13,"links":1645},"",[],"段永平与王石对谈，论投资哲学、文化传承、营销本质、子女教育及平常心即长期主义。","md",{},true,"\u002Fdao\u002Fspeeches\u002Fduanyongping-2025niantantangpingyuneijuan-yuwangshijiaoliuzinvjiaoyu",{"title":288,"description":1646},"2025年谈躺平与内卷、与王石交流子女教育｜段永平投资问答录","dao\u002Fspeeches\u002Fduanyongping-2025niantantangpingyuneijuan-yuwangshijiaoliuzinvjiaoyu","cvzTcJhApKBn21VW_f9QOSQbjGnPkkTouGR4wwgwjEk","dao",1782116793017]